An Eye For An Eye
Please read Struggle To Understand as a precursor to this rant, because the comment is what triggered this response. The specific comment indicated that it is a ‘Sad reality’ that our society is so screwed up as to produce people who, without thought, or even malice, deliberately and casually kill babies; and that it happens in spite of our ‘vigilance’.
Well, I disagree. It doesn’t happen in spite of our vigilance, it happens because of our apathy.
I think therein lies the problem….the social system is overstressed because too many babies are being born to children. Children who didn’t get the proper upbringing themselves. And a bandaid is applied after the fact, then the perpetrator becomes the underdog and ends up being treated as the victim. However, by the time the crime is committed the psyche of the perpetrator has been established and it is almost impossible to correct this. We now have a sociopath walking around among us in people clothing, but it is not human, it is a sociopath.
Once a sociopathic personality is established, is it better to impose the death penalty rather than take the chance of eventual freedom for the one, which will likely result in death for many more? Not to mention dragging the rest of society down with the expense of support for a possible 80 years or more using incredibly limited resources that could be better spent almost any other way? And before you start accusing me of being heartless, read the rest of this rant. I am not against helping, retraining, whatever it takes to bring someone back into society, but I truly believe that this is not possible with a sociopath. And the danger to the rest of society, to people who really are innocent, is too great to keep them alive. Funding is not unlimited. Put it into soup kitchens and homes for abused women and children—in other words, prevent this from happening to someone else—rather than spending the money feeding, clothing, housing and entertaining one who is already lost.
Another thing, what has caused the personality of this individual to develop in such a way? We don’t need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in studies to figure this out, just look at the background of each individual who shows these developmental problems and make a logical deduction. WHO was responsible for this child’s development? Should the irresponsible parents who formed this personality through neglect, lack of discipline, and/or mistreatment also be punished by death so that no future psychopaths from that circumstance are created?
Who is responsible for the actions of under-aged children? Someone must be responsible for their actions. A parent can not bear a child and turn him/her loose on society without taking responsibility for the child’s actions, including destruction of personal property and/or the taking of a life. Should parents be completely responsible for the actions of their children up until they are legally adults? Or do we continue to ignore the main cause of the warping of young personalities and continue to heap putrid and rotting piles of worthless pity on them while continuing to look the other way as we throw free housing, food stamps and unemployment over our shoulders?
And, although the greatest majority come from under-aged unwed mothers living with older family members or in prostitution or drug houses, what about the few that come from privileged families and feel that they are entitled and above the law? Are they any less responsible because they are wealthy?
Should the same rules apply to all: IF you kill someone you WILL suffer the same fate once proven guilty REGARDLESS of religion, color, background, place of birth, or legal arguments by expensive lawyers? And IF your child kills someone before they reach the age of legal adult, you WILL be held responsible. After all, are you not responsible for their birth, well being, and training until that time? And are those under your care not responsible for taking the life of another? Where were you when the crime was committed? How long has it been since you knew where your child was and what he/she was doing? Why didn’t you know there was a problem?
Parents are ultimately responsible for teaching their children the difference between right and wrong; what is acceptable behavior in society and what is not. One simple rule is all it takes: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do you want me to shoot you? Do you want me to steal from you? Do you want me to beat you or rape you or trash your house? Then why do you do it to me?
Why is it that NO ONE is held responsible when these things happen? Why must the innocent be the ones to suffer while the guilty get off on technicalities? And why are parents not held responsible for their children?
OK, Now I am on my soapbox. Both of you have valid but not complete information and rants.
What about the one sibling amongst others, all raised the same, not poor and not quite middle class. Siblings who worked their way thru college to get good jobs. The one in the group that refused to conform. The one in the group that has now had several abortions, and is familiar with the inside of a jail. The parents of said child held responsible? Excuse me???? I think not! The siblings rspomsible for their sister? NOT!!! How about the TV diet of sex and sadism? How about school gangs? How about a society that for the most part can’t remember what propiriety means let alone find it existing today.
MUST blame be placed in only one type, group, or parent?
How about the way you were raised. I don’t know about you but I was raised to be reponsible for my own failings, and proud of my “jobs well done”. I was raised to know what shame was, as much as I knew what pride was. My dad taught us that everything and anything you do can wind up on a billboard or the banner of a newspaper…now adays the internet.
It isn’t a matter of right or wrong in this day and age. Some blame it on economy. Apathy doesn’t even cover all of it. Have you actually watched the commercials on the boob tube? How about the morning after pill. Teaches our people that it is alright to have indescriminate sex. You can, and not have to raise a child. Where is the responsibility in that. What happened to “you made your bed, now lie in it”?
How many people do you know that are self-sufficient. That went out with self-reliant ages ago. It also took with it: Honor, Grace, Trust and a few other marvelous traits. DO NOT even begin to blame the Dr’s. They are creatures of the same rotten to the core culture that their patients belong to. Neither love themselves nor are they proud of themselves. It’s just the almighty BUCK and the next material thing it will buy. AND “it is alright, everyone else is doing it”.
My rant and I give my soapbox to the next person.
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Thank you for your response, and for the time and thought that you put into your reply. I wrote a rather long-winded reply, but I feel this is an important subject and, rather than posting it now and risk making this a two-person debate, I would like to wait a day or so and give others a chance to post possible other views. Perhaps, if enough of us pool our ideas, we can come up with alternatives.
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I’m fine with that. I really don’t want a debate either. The post you referred to and your post just stirred up some things inside me that needed to be let out. The biggest is that I despise the sex commercials. Even Microsoft has some sexual hints. Also I just do not believe in blaming others for what you are responsible for. Neither of you focused on these items. So I wasn’t attacking. They are, perhaps, for another day.
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Wow, I see my comment for “Struggle To Understand” really did evoke quite a rant!
Generally, what you say makes perfect sense. But, I’ll try not to ‘generalize’ too much, when it comes to describing “what makes and leads to a sociopath”, if you try too…
I’m sure a fair percentage of anti-social behaviour can be traced to poor parenting – but parents should not be automatically blamed. Adolescents can ‘stray’, even with strict parenting, because… they’re adolescents! Many adults (former children) go wayward on their own, long after reasonable parenting efforts. Also, there are many societal pressures ‘at play’, outside the family circle.
Assigning blame after a heinous crime must always first lie with the perpetrator, unless they are found to be ‘not of sound mind’. Even if grudgingly, we have to accept that much like our bowels, heart, kidneys, etc., our mind can malfunction too.
Now… what we do with perpetrators of horrible crimes is a huge debate in itself. I tend to agree that, if someone is proven to be ‘aware’ of their heinous deeds, then ‘an eye for an eye’ is reasonable punishment. BUT – I think we are morally obligated to err on the cautious side when determining blame and punishment – because not everything ‘meets the eye’…
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I believe there are many factors contributing to the creation of a psychopath. Incredibly it took the states and federal government regulators (paper pushers) in the foster system too many decades to see what foster parents were trying to tell them all along–if children aren’t kept with one foster parent, s/he doesn’t bond with other humans. Not all children who have been denied the ability to bond with a parent figure become psychopaths, but the lack of this bond increases the possibility. Therefore, the policies of government CREATED sociopaths and psychopaths that would have otherwise become loving, caring people..
Then, there are people who are born without the ability to empathize with others. Families with 2, 3, more children where 1 is missing the ability to empathize. I feel for the parents of those individuals, as they are left with a tremendous guilt over what they must have done to create a societal monster. .
The ones that become monsters because one or more parent who had been abused abuses them, continues the legacy if given a chance Parents who do this to a child need to pay the price for their child’s actions!!!! Once the child is a sociopath/psychopath nothing can be done but to remove that person from society.
No matter why the psychopath was created, I agree with VL on what to do with him. Nothing good can come out of continuing his life except the unnecessary expense of imprisonment and the possibility that he will do it again one day if he makes it out of prison.
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First, let me say that I really appreciate the responses to this rant. They are all considerate, well thought, and from the heart.
Because there seems to be some misunderstanding about time frames here, I would like to make clear that I don’t feel parents should be liable for their children until their death. Only that they have liability until that child passes the age of majority. Until that time the child is not held legally responsible for its own actions. After the age of majority they are an adult and can pay their own dues.
I believe this removes jail time consideration unless you mean reform school time.
As for commercials causing psycopaths or crime, millions of kids and adults watch them every day and don’t kill each other. Yes, they are bad. Yes, they exagerate the very worst morals and values of our society today. Yes, they are a teaching tool and they are degrading the way we treat each other and our expectations of life. No, they do not cause people to kill others. If that was the case a lot more of us would be dead now…or killers. We watched TV when we were kids and saw commercials showing the ‘Little Woman’s’ place in the family and look at us now. The ‘Little Woman’ is now an astronaut, a governor, CEO of major companies. Commercials did not hold us back or keep us in the kitchen.
DJ, you point out exactly what I’m trying to get across. When we were children we were raised by parents who parented. They made sure we had an education in the difference between right and wrong. They taught us values our parents were a solid foundation in our lives.
Jo Ellen, you point out that even the government–an agency that is notoriously behind in enlightenment–understands that if a child doesn’t have consistent parenting, that child is at risk.
Mark, you say that “a fair percentage of anti-social behaviour can be traced to poor parenting”.
I agree with all of you that parenting is not 100% of the time the cause of bad behavior in children. I am saying that parents are responsible for their children until they reach the age of majority.
If you feel parents should not be blamed and the blame for the crime must always lie with the perpetrator, what if that perpetrator is a 5 year old kid with a pack of matches and he burns your house down…and what if you don’t have insurance? Where is the blame? Who is responsible for seeing that a 5 year old kid isn’t in your yard setting fire to your house? Is the blame with the kid? Do we send the child to jail? And who is responsible for the damage to your house? Does the parent know that the child has a fire fetish and is he under the care of a professional? Or is the parent too busy watching the game to pay attention when the kid flicks his lighter on and off repeatedly? If a 5 year old is to blame for this, why isn’t this 5 year old capable of voting and driving a car?
What about the 8 year old who sneaks an ATV into my paddock and chases my foal to death with it? What if it was a 10 year old? Or a 16 year old? At what age does responsibility move from the parent to the child? If responsibility is moving to the child, in effect, admitting that the child is capable of making rational and informed choices, should that child not be given all the rights of an adult?
It used to be that parents accepted responsibility for the actions of their minor children. Now they blame everyone else from society at large to specific organizations or segments of society.
So….any suggestions for what age a child should become an adult? One of my husband’s relatives kicked her kids out of the house, one after another, when they reached the age of 16. One got a job, put herself through university, toured Europe and now works in high level management for a large corporation. The other got caught shoplifting and spent several months in jail. I’m not sure where he is now.
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When you become a new parent, you don’t sleep through the night. A child needs to be fed and changed every few hours. Over time, this exhausts the most energetic of parents. When they start to walk, the job intensifies as you have to make sure they don’t find pieces of metal to stick into light sockets or try to navigate stairs alone. The job is 24/7 and a parent is going to make a mistake. I am witness to the fact that there were many times when the only thing between my children and certain death was God. All it takes is an exhausted parent nodding off for 2 minutes while folding laundry and a 3 year old runs in the road.
Each member of my family lives in a different State of the USA. My husband worked and I stayed home for the first 3 1/2 years until the isolation made me desperate to find a part-time job. At one time, multiple generations of families lived in one house and more than one parent was watching the kids. There were negative aspects about doing it that way, just as there are negative aspects about parenting alone. But in that scenario, the chances of a 3 year old running into the road or a 5 year old burning the house down with matches is more remote.
I agree completely that if you have a child you are the one responsible, no matter how hard the job. But I also believe that the job of raising a child is highly under-rated as well as unsupported by society as a whole.
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This has become most interesting. The focus is no longer 1 focus but has become several. All comments, so far, are valid, well thought out, and important.
In my soapbox reply, I failed to make it evident that the one sibling in the group, can and most often is, brilliant with no common sense. Stubborn and would refuse to learn what they didn’t want to know if you drilled a hole in their skull and pored the information in. This child will most often defy any teachings of right or wrong, walks to a different drummer, and has their own code. In my “child’s” case it was eveident from day 1 in the hospital nursery and when the doctor wanted to keep her for a few more days staff told him not in there…move her to Pede’s…where they didn’t have the equipment needed. No parenting can change this circumstance and yet the parent continually asks themselves what more could I have done? What did I do wrong? After all…parents are God….aren’t they? I am!!??!! Aren’t I? All seeing, all knowing……….right??? RIGHT????
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In the case of your ‘child’ it sounds like help was sought from the beginning. This shows good parenting and relieves the parent of much of the responsibility, especially if professional help is acquired. There are so many government services and other free or low cost services now that I believe most people have access to something, even if it’s only a guidance councilor or school nurse. Once help is sought and granted, a portion of the responsibility for the development of the child shifts to the helper–especially if that helper is advertising as a professional.
Parents are not all knowing or all seeing, but through the growing years of a child a parent should be observant and attentive enough to notice that the child is not normal, especially if the child is violent or aggressive.
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